Wedding Planning Decisions, This vs That with Kelly McWilliams

Unforgettable Wedding Photos: Candid vs. Posed Photography

• Kelly A McWilliams • Season 5 • Episode 6

Share episode

I would LOVE a text from you!

Ever wondered about the secret sauce behind unforgettable wedding photos? The answer lies in the tug of war between shot list and candid photography. We walk you through this intricate conversation, with our special guest, destination wedding photographer and educator, Kelley Williams. Her expertise and practical insights on balancing both styles promises to leave you with plenty of food for thought.

As we unpick the delicate fabric of wedding photography, we reveal how the photographer's approach—be it adhering to a shot list or exploring the boundaries of creativity—can shape the outcome. The episode explores the diversity and richness that can be achieved with candid shots, but also acknowledges the satisfaction a well-executed shot list can bring. Beyond this, we emphasize the magic that clear communication can conjure. We discuss how discussing expectations, planning the day's timeline effectively, and allowing enough time for those special, unscripted moments can elevate your album from good to great.

We round off our discussion by underlining the importance of building a genuine connection with your photographer. After all, the more comfortable and authentic you are, the more your photos will reflect that. We also delve into the potential of Pinterest boards as a tool for communicating your vision and wrap up with tips on nurturing your photographer relationship. And of course, we couldn't forget the power of social media shoutouts and reviews. So tune in as we navigate the nuances of wedding photography with our incredible guest, Kelley Williams, and equip you with the knowledge to make your wedding photos a true reflection of your special day.

Follow Kelley on Instagram: 
https://www.instagram.com/kelleywphotos

Find her online: 
www.kelleywphotos.com

Places to go - People to see:

Kelly's Site: http://www.kellymcwilliams.com
Kelly's Blog: https://www.kellymcwilliams.com/blog
Instagram: @kellyamcwilliams


About Kelly:
Kelly knows how incredible a well planned wedding can be. Every moment counts and every decision plays a part. Wedding planning should be fun and as easy to do as possible. Besides planning weddings, Kelly travels the globe as an industry speaker. Kelly is a Martha Stewart Top Wedding Planner & this podcast won Brides magazine and WeddingWire's best podcast.

Need a little help planning your wedding?

The Getting Ready Room List (ON SALE NOW)

Wedding Song Ideas: Spotify Playlist Included! (ON SALE NOW)

Download the Wedding Spending Plan

...

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to this Versus that making wedding decisions with Kelly McWilliams. This podcast is for you if you're making a wedding decision and want to know what to consider before saying I do to all the things that will make your wedding experience a great one. I'm your host, kelly McWilliams, and I'm so glad to be a part of your wedding planning journey. In each episode, you can count on me and my expert wedding co-hosts to give you everything it takes to make the best decisions for the wedding that you're dreaming of. This is one of my favorite episodes, I think, because it's fun and it's something that I know that you guys are going to be very interested in, because it's something that you're curious about and very unsure of. It's one of those things where I feel like you don't know what you don't know. It is shot list versus candid photography, or maybe you didn't even think about it. Maybe you're like, oh, I just like the way the pictures look on Instagram.

Speaker 1:

This was such a good conversation with Kelly because and yes, her name is Kelly too Kelly Williams, can you believe that? And I'm Kelly McWilliams, but her name has an extra E in the Kelly, and I have the mic and she doesn't have the mic. So I'm Kelly McWilliams, she's Kelly Williams. We met at the Engage Conference. I don't remember which one it was at, but we were fast friends and everyone gets us confused and I'm fine with that because I love her and you're going to love her too. So, anyway, she came to meet this topic and I was like that's such a good idea, we should absolutely talk about it and we go off on a tangent. We really hardcore, had to cut each other off because there was so much that we could talk about, but I think in the end we just wanted to drive the point home on all of this that you don't necessarily need to have a full shot list, you don't have to provide everything to your photographer, so long as you have a seasoned photographer and if you are going with that candid photography, which is very much trending right now, I have always loved it, just because I feel like candid photography allows that the photographer to be creative, to be an artist, to actually capture the story of your wedding day. They're there to to photograph and document what actually happened versus what is forced to happen Like. I feel like weddings have gotten a little more scripted when we've gone for this very editorial look, which I like. Oh yeah, the pictures are beautiful, but it takes up so much of your day and doesn't as much allow you to just enjoy your day. So I love that we're going back to a little bit more of this candid photography. But, yes, I do want to say from the bottom of my heart that if you are reaching to do more of this with your wedding, if you're leaning in that direction of candid photography, that you hire a skilled photographer, meaning someone who has years of experience and covered hundreds of weddings as the lead photographer. It really does make a wealth of difference.

Speaker 1:

So let me tell you a little bit about Kelly. She's a destination wedding planner and photographer. I'm sorry she is not a wedding planner. I can't believe. I just said that. I think I'm used to saying that all the time because that's what I do.

Speaker 1:

She's a wedding photographer and educator. She's from Maryland, but she lives in California now. She specializes in vibrant photography, meaning it's full color, which again, I feel like is really coming in back in trending, which I also love. But she's also a professional third wheel and I can tell you that's the best thing when you have a photographer who you love, like you want to be like. You want them to be your friends, so that you feel like there's not just this extra person in the room that your photographer, someone that just genuinely makes you smile. Kelly is like that for me and she's my friend, like I want to be around her all the time and I feel like her couples are so lucky because that's like she's just so fun and easy to be around. You can be yourself. I love that about her. Anyway, her work has been featured in many, many top publications like Brides and Style Only Pretty. She's really passionate about helping other photographers create a brand that they love and to build genuine connections with their clients and their vendors in the wedding industry. She's the kind of people that I like to be around and I think you will too. I think you'll get that from her as you listen to this episode. We will put in the show notes, but she's at Kelly W Photos on Instagram and I'm excited for you to learn more about her. But I'm very excited for you to listen to this episode and kind of decide if you want to lean towards candid photography or maybe having a photographer that is happy to have a shot list that you provide to them.

Speaker 1:

We do talk. Well, I'm just going to get into this episode. I could give the whole thing away right here. All right, let's go bring Kelly in. This topic is not one that I would have ever thought of on my own, cal. And yes, so we have lots of Kelly's, because this is my girlfriend, kelly, who's a photographer out of California. I feel like you're in every world in the world, but California a lot. And then you know, my husband's name is Kelly's and lots of Kelly's. But this topic when you came, I was like, oh my gosh, we should totally talk about that. And, to be honest, I know what I always put in place, but I don't know if it's what photographers want. So our title everyone is a shot list versus candid photography. And am I right in thinking that when you came to me, with this you mean that the client comes to you with the shot list or just says do candid, or do you mean the photographer is requesting a shot list or to let you be candid?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, honestly, I thought about it both ways, right? So I have had clients that will, and there are just clients that will come to you with a list of kind of all the photos that they want, right? They're like, I want a photo of the dress hanging up, or I want to do a photo of, like, seeing all my guests at cocktail hour.

Speaker 1:

Stop, stop. Let me tell you something you said I want a photo of the dress hanging up. I want to stop this forever and ever, amen. If I have another picture on a hey, you didn't say it I'm going to embrace it. No, listen, I'm okay. I'm already interrupting you and I'm sorry, kelly. Oh, my gosh, please Interrupt me. I know there's nothing to do with our topic, but I am so over the dress on the hanger photo. I know I've been doing this for a long time, but can we please put the dress on the pretty form? It just shows so much more beautifully.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

Kelly's over here shaking her head.

Speaker 2:

yes, I stopped doing that photo because you don't need it.

Speaker 1:

No one. You will never look at it again. You will never look. And here's the thing when I first started back, when dirt was still hitting the earth, dresses didn't have what is it called, where you can see through it.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, just that tool that they see. I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1:

We all know we're talking about. No, it's not called cheer, it's like illusion or whatever it is. So your whole dress is connected, but it looks like skin is showing through in some part, and sometimes skin is showing through but there is some fabric. Well, when we have dresses like that we didn't have those back in the day, 20 years ago, didn't exist. Now it's like a very common thing. And so when you hang that dress on the hanger in front of a window, what do you see? You see the breast pads. The breast pads, yes, and where everything else is like a solid, non-translucent. So the dress photos hanging on the hanger, they are no longer pretty, they're like why am I looking at booby pads? So now we have figured out another way to take pictures of dresses. A beautiful dress form can sit in a corner and we can show. There's so many ways to use it, but okay.

Speaker 2:

No I agree.

Speaker 1:

I'm sorry I stopped you mid conversation already.

Speaker 2:

You can't tell me anytime, it's not a problem. But I just think when couples come to photographers, I feel like they kind of come with two different mindsets. They come with I want all of these photos, I need to have all these photos, or they kind of can come with like I just want you to do your thing. And I feel like in the same way, the wedding industry or not the photography industry has these ideas of there's a dark and moody photographer and like a light photographer.

Speaker 2:

Right. There's like a kind of split of like these are the types of photographers I kind of think there's also been this shift of. There's the super candid photographers, where they don't don't you dare give them a shot list, and the photographers that, like, we'll get every single photo that you want them to get and like, send them the Pinterest boards and all that other stuff.

Speaker 1:

So so is that something that people who are getting married engage people need to ask? So, when there's outsourcing for their photographers and they come across people that they like the style, they like the way they shoot they're looking at through all of their images on their website and the Instagrams and wherever they found them, they're like I really like the look of everything I'm seeing here Do they then need to ask are you more, are you more of like a list photographer or are you more of a candid photographer? Is that a question they should be asking?

Speaker 2:

I think so. I think that's because I feel like that will help manage expectations right oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

If I'm really big on, I just feel like everyone should, especially when you're making such a big investment in wedding photography and these are going to be your photos that you're going to have, right, like I think it's a good idea to ask kind of, what's your approach to a wedding day?

Speaker 2:

Are you coming in with a list of things that have shots you want to get, or are you just kind of letting the day unfold and just capturing it as it happens? Right, and I think more couples are leaning towards candid because I feel like they like that's very in right now, kind of trending black and white, the blurry, the more emotion idea. But I think. So what I do, for example, is I only have a family shot list. So I give you a template and you fill out names and that's the only type of shot list I like to have, mostly because it's like it's the most efficient. I don't want you thinking about combinations and family lists on the screen and like it's someone, which is terrible, obviously. So that's the only list I will do, but I will not take a list of other types of shots than a client wants.

Speaker 1:

Do you think that most photographers or do you think there's a greater majority of photographers who are in that same frame of mind that they would rather be able to capture the actual story of the day as it unfolds versus forcing all these images to happen that were written on a piece of paper or emailed ever?

Speaker 2:

I mean, I do think that's kind of the majority. But I will say and I say that being someone who's been in this business for a while I've been a full-time photographer for almost eight years, so I've been doing it for a while. I do think the newer photographers like a list because they haven't had the experience of all the things that can happen on a wedding day.

Speaker 2:

But I feel like when you're paying a seasoned professional, you don't give them a list. They got it, yeah, they know. Yeah, they know. It's for you to sit back, enjoy your wedding day and know that it's going to be captured perfectly.

Speaker 1:

In it. With the shot list versus candid, do you find that you end up with different imagery? The photos at the end are entirely different because you're capturing different things than you would have if it had been on a list.

Speaker 2:

I definitely feel like you have more fun on a wedding day and you're able to be more creative when a client gives you a list of. These are all the shots I want. Throughout the entire eight, nine, 10 hours you're there, you spend your focus looking at this piece of paper, getting this list done, instead of being able to have the creativity and being able to play and try different things. I feel like that's a more well-rounded gallery. At the end of the day, I think that's a very good shot list.

Speaker 1:

Do you feel like when you have that allowance to do that, that the images tend to be more emotional or tell the story better? I guess I want to find out. I hate to say it. Are the pictures just better because you were able to be creative? It's okay to say yes or no. Kelly, You're allowed to say all the things here. You can also say I plead the fifth.

Speaker 2:

Don't get me wrong. I think there is a client who wants what they want and they want these particular shots and they will be very happy with their gallery. I think, no matter what, the client who wants what they want is going to be happy.

Speaker 2:

If the client wants to give you a full list, every single shot, when they get their gallery back and it's every single thing that they wanted on that list, they'll be happy. I think the same way, the client that comes in and says I want full candid, full creativity, they'll be happy. I think the difference is in the photographer and also I want to say in the photographer because I also think the client that gives you the list, they don't know what they're missing by not letting you be creative.

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, they also don't know what they don't know. Do you mean they don't realize the pictures that they are probably asking for are not ones that they're going to want at the end because you just don't realize? Let me ask this is a little bit of an off-topic, but not really Of the pictures that people typically put into their albums are those ones that people will come to you with their list, those people that do give you a full list and they're like I want these 25 pictures? Are those the ones they actually put in an album? No, yes, see, there's a proof right there. I was kind of hoping that was the answer, but that was a big risk I just took right there.

Speaker 2:

No, that's not the case at all, because I design a lot of. Most of my clients will get an album or their parents will get an album. Sure, it has typical family list, the ceremony shots, but I feel like always it's going to be the more candid, it's going to be the ones that we have to stand for.

Speaker 2:

There was this album I just designed last week and it's this beautiful photo of the groom and he's walking his grandfather to cocktail hour, but they're hand in hand. It's like if I was thinking about this list, where I had to go to cocktail hour and shoot this and shoot that. Based on this list, I wouldn't have been able to just casually stroll with my couple as they head to cocktail hour and just capture that moment. Yeah, and that's a photo they put in their album. It's like a big photo in their album, like it's a page.

Speaker 1:

That's an heirloom photo right there.

Speaker 2:

Right. It's like you're walking hand in hand with your grandfather, like on your wedding day. You just got married, he has his ring and it's just. I love that photo so much and that's a candid photo. We could not have planned for that photo, it just kind of happened and I feel so. I feel like the clients that are really heavy on a list, just thinking about the possibilities that can happen when you hire a professional outside of the list. Right, like what you can imagine, what your photographer can capture.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about now. You're going to have to, like, make sure we're allowed to see this photo in call it client up before this episode goes live, because and say so, I was talking about this picture we took on this podcast.

Speaker 1:

Can we show it? Okay? So let's say, someone is like maybe just can't release all control and does still feel like they're just going to feel uncomfortable, even though they trust you, not giving you at least a little bit. So if that was the case, what would you say if you had to? Here's what would be great to receive from you, like on a short and narrow list.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like if you had to, because I know, and I've seen them all I have had lists come over that were like 45 items long and I'm like, no, I'm pushing it back up like a car salesman when they send the paper over with the dollar amount and I'm like the one on the other side pushing it right back, saying let me change this number and we're cutting that in half, you know. So what would you say would be like a safe spot to be like okay, if you sent me like something like this that's still going to allow me to do everything that I think could potentially be great about covering your wedding with the additional time that I would have, because I'm not stuck looking at this piece of paper.

Speaker 2:

Right, yes, so I have had those types of clients and I tell them five photos.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's a good number.

Speaker 2:

You can give me five, like five that you're like I really want this shot. Usually they've seen it on Pinterest. Yeah, I'm like okay, you can give me five, and I feel like that is a reasonable amount. That they're happy, I'm happy.

Speaker 1:

Would you feel good about or be okay with? And you can say no, like I said, you can plead the fifth and all that stuff. But so what if someone came to you and said I would like to give you a shot list, would you be comfortable with instead, if they like, if they let's say like, let's say I'm the planner and they told me that they want the photographer to take a shot list, would it be cool or kosher for me as a planner to say how about this instead? How about you make a Pinterest board of pictures that you love, like images that you love, and we just send it to your photographer so she gets an idea? But then you, she's not or he's not guaranteeing any of that, but they have some insight into the kinds of images like not that it's not trying to avoid your style, but like I like the way these are, like these are set up for you know this, that or the other. Is that decent fare? Or, like hell, don't do that.

Speaker 2:

No, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, especially if there's a conversation to be had, because I like to ask what do you like about these photos? Do you see?

Speaker 1:

Like the dogs just walked in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my dog was like you've been spending for a while, so it's what do you? What's the feeling that these pictures are giving you? That you?

Speaker 1:

want on your wedding day. Okay.

Speaker 2:

I think that's more important, right? It's like how and that's something I ask clients when I do an inquiry call it's like how do you want to feel on your wedding day and how can I help you and obviously your wedding team help you have that feeling right on your wedding day.

Speaker 2:

And most people want to feel relaxed, right, they want to like, be in the moment, things like that. So, if we can have a conversation like, I don't mind if you send a Pinterest board with your inspiration, but I have a further conversation of like what about this Do you like? What about this Do you want to have from your wedding day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Actually, I love that you put it that way. So then you're not like, okay, I have to do this picture where they're standing next to the bar and the flower girl is sitting to the right. And also, something to think about, guys, is every time you add one of those pictures in, you think it's a 30 second deal. That is nuts. Tell them, tell them, kelly, tell them how long stuff like that actually takes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no shots have to be set up. If you want to be like specific shots, it takes like a couple minutes per photo and that also depends on the cooperation, like if you want to throw kids or pets into the mix. It's going to take some time. It's going to take some time.

Speaker 1:

That is, and I don't think we could. What's that? What's that? Hit the throne, hit the. Okay, yes, you're right, I'm losing my words here. I totally did not have enough tea this morning.

Speaker 1:

I can tell you as a fact, a lot of those kinds of images are ones that we're trying to do pre-ceremony, or like during cocktail or early dinner. Finding these people alone to be an image. It's one thing that wants to just you in the group, or you in your bride, or you with your parents, or something like that, because you're in one place. And this is actually what we're doing, this kind of stuff right now. So, if it's a matter of letting your photographer know, I really love the idea of the picture with my parents.

Speaker 1:

If, like my dad sitting in a chair and my mom and dad are surrounding him, yeah, like you're already playing on doing a picture with the three of them, of course, yes, so maybe that's something you wouldn't usually do, but you've already set in your mind you're getting a good picture with the parents, exactly, you know. So that could be something. But it's like when that's not the timeframe of that kind of thing happening, or something. It's like, just like you said, the dog during cocktail hour and I want to be at the bar and like okay, and also I want to make sure my brother and my best man are in it. Where are they? Where are they? So, yes, it is. You are there, like setting the thing up, and I am running around trying to find these five people and one of them is at the bar and is like I am not leaving here until I have my old fashion in my hand.

Speaker 2:

And that you know.

Speaker 1:

So it's what truly remember. We said you thought this was going to be 30 seconds. We're into 15 minutes now.

Speaker 2:

Oh easy, 15 minutes Easily. Why are things during cocktail hour People I don't think couples realize your guests are done.

Speaker 2:

Like if they go to friends, like your people in your wedding party, your parents, like they want to go, like they've been with us all morning, like they want to drink, they want to have some food, they want to see their friends. It's not Lai, they peace out and so it's like you have to really wrangle these people. So, yeah, and especially if you want to do photos and also like your venue could be hard to like, if you have there's a great venue we have in town that I love to shoot at, but it's literally the ceremony is Down a hill, around a bend, like in front of a pond, versus the cocktail hour, like you have to be shuttled to the Cocktail oh yeah, we have a lot of those here to like so, if you want it.

Speaker 2:

You want like a specific shot, but we're in one part of the venue. It's gonna take time to go to the other part of the venue gather who we need. So it's just like yeah, it just becomes a more. If you are a shot list couple, it is. It will just be way more complicated than you think you want.

Speaker 1:

So I would say that if you are gonna be a shot list couple which we're saying is fine, but you're signing up for something, yes, I would also add an extra hour of coverage Because that would allow for all of those things. We just told you how long one picture could take. So if that's one picture, that could take 15 minutes. But if that picture means that much to you, of course we want you to have it. If it means that much to you, and it might be, cal, that there's gonna be some images that they're trying to recreate, because I know it's a big trend right now and actually they're kind of cute. You know, like if you know a picture that her, you know, your grandparents, did when they got married and you want to have the same image that up, maybe you're getting married at the same place or you know, you know it. You just want to recreate that for your generation, that we want you to have those things too. So those are, those are shot list things that you, we want you to have.

Speaker 1:

I think what we want to Let you know is the shot list where that lists out all of these crazy details, like on the flat lay. I would like a picture of that is just my perfume and just my jewelry, and then on the next flat lay, can we do it but then add the flowers. Like we know nobody wants that and you're not gonna. You're not gonna print that out and put it on your Frigerator, you're not gonna frame it and Kelly's already told you that have the pictures that you're gonna put in your shot list. You're not gonna end up putting in your album. And this is a professional like we're not just making this up. These are professionals who do this day in and day out. We're saying this is what really happens.

Speaker 2:

Hundred? Yeah, and I'm. And when I say shot list, I'm not talking about like family shot list, right?

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, no, we don't do that you want with your family.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm talking about that. I'm talking about the one like you saw this photo on Pinterest and you want to recreate it like you're in a vineyard, popping champagne with these glasses, your bridal party's behind you, it's sunset, it's like there's a bird flying overhead, like I'm talking about. These kind of shots Are not naturally probably gonna happen on your wedding day. Yeah, kind of what we're talking about here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, or like the vanity fair shots like that. You know, let me look, guys. I gotta tell you what just happened. Kelly just leaned back in her seat and took a big deep breath for that when I said that out loud. So we know those photos are epic, they are, and I think everyone loves to have them. But listen, remember when I just said add on that extra time. You are gonna have to add on extra time for that one because even it looks it Okay. Those pictures don't even look effortless. You can tell tape time was taken, because it was. You're getting all those people, you're setting up the chairs, you're trying to find heights and levels and depths, and you know it. That is not and that's also not a one photographer deal, am I right?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely and yeah and those types of shots. Okay, so I did one of those. I feel like last year was like probably my first time doing one of those where it was probably 20 of their what it was like 20 people in the wedding party, yeah. So we needed chairs, you need setups, you have to. Also, in all the bridesmaids had different dresses. It was like one of those. So you have in a different patterns. You just see what looks good visually together. It took like 20 minutes, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yes, exactly, exactly because it. It's not about everyone just sits anywhere they want to. It's because Kelly like. So, first of all, again getting everyone together. We this would be during portrait time, group photos, especially, like you said, if there are different dresses and things like that, every single person has to be placed and Sometimes you put them all in and you the photographer takes a step back and takes that first image and it's like looks at the back of the camera going no, we have to move these three people.

Speaker 1:

Here's the other end of this. Everyone has either a good, bad or indifferent attitude. That is sitting in those chairs and standing, for instance, when I make. Every time my family gets together, like like every time, kelly, every time, like when grandma and grandpa and all this people together, I make everyone take a family photo, I don't care, and they all know it's coming. No one walks out the door before St Patrick's Day Sunday dinner. I don't care, I want the picture.

Speaker 1:

Yes, every single time and I've been married 25 years my husband would be like I'm not doing, he's mad and I'm like listen, one day you're gonna be so happy to have this picture, so, but you're gonna have five of those of your 20 people who are done before we started and, like you said, it takes so long just to put it together that by that time they're like can we just be done? So you don't always so. Just know that, yes, that's an incredible image, but you have to go into it knowing you asked for something that is substantial and it takes substantial time and effort and good attitude 100%.

Speaker 2:

It can't be something that you plan 15, 20 minutes for. Like I just told you, it'll take 20 minutes to set up the shot and that's just the one shot. We still have other photos to capture. So I totally agree with that. It's yeah, it takes time.

Speaker 1:

I'm glad we talked about this because that never would have made another show Like that's. I'm glad it came up just now. We're getting close to our limit here. What I do wanna talk about like what are is there anything that we need to be nervous about when it comes to like like a more candid photography wedding day, when it comes to like maybe images that could be missed, or anything like that, is that something that should be a concern to anyone? Honestly?

Speaker 2:

yes, because I, because I come back and not for me. But clients from other photographers have come back wanting to do like anniversary shots or you know, sessions because of photos they did not capture on their wedding day.

Speaker 2:

So in a sense, and I feel like so, if you're going for, if a couple is booking a really candid photographer, right, there are some photographers that you don't even give them a family shot list. You know what I mean? Like, don't give them a list, and I just feel like if you but you love their style, you love their candid approach, then you, if there are photos that are really truly important to you, you need to let them know.

Speaker 2:

I feel like the wedding day and your wedding team is all about communication, right, and I feel like I'm sure you've talked about that on other shows. It's like you gotta communicate. So let's say, you love this candid photographer, you love their style, but they are like a no-list person, like don't send me a Pinterest board, don't send me a list. I would still communicate that like, hey, I love your style, I know you don't love a list, but I really need this photo with my grandfather.

Speaker 2:

Or like I just want some time, you know, with my wedding party or something like that. Like frame it however you want to, but if there are things that are really important to you, then capture them, because they'll tell them when you want them captured, because I tell people all the time. Your wedding day is literally probably one of the only times you're gonna have all these people in the same room ever, right On your wedding. So if there's something you really want captured, you have to just communicate it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and do you think that these conversations should be had before they hired the photographer or after they hired the photographer? And when I say if it's after, should it be at the beginning of the process so you figure out how much time should be like you need them for, or should it be like closer to the wedding, when they know who's coming and they kind of have some ideas in mind and they know where things are happening, or does it need to happen all three times?

Speaker 2:

I think maybe at least twice. I think definitely in the inquiry process, when you're deciding who you're in a book for your wedding day, right, Cause there's a lot of factors that go into that. There's personality and their style and their price, all these things right. So I think it's a fair question to ask like, hey, what's your approach to your wedding day? Are you a more candid photographer? Do you, would you like me to give you a shot list or shots that I would like you know? What's your approach, what works for you? And ideally, you're asking this to like your top three, right?

Speaker 1:

You're not just asking the grand list, but you know when you're trying to narrow down.

Speaker 2:

And then, once you figure out who's your style, I would just it's nice to have another refresher conversation at some point, I think maybe, maybe closer to the wedding day of. Like this is what's really important to me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And then should that conversation kind of excuse me, have some give some context on like how much coverage time, like is that? You know what I mean? Like I feel like that conversation is had in the beginning. Then it's the responsibility of the photographer to say how many guests are you having and how big is your wedding party, and just kind of knowing, like if it is a more, you know that they do want some of these things to happen. It's like add, like I don't suggest to you that we have less than nine hours on your wedding day and here's why. Okay.

Speaker 2:

And I think when you have a seasoned photographer, they would know that you know what I mean. Okay, Because I mean I personally feel like kind of a minimum for wedding day is like nine hours, Like right, Like I like time, I like time to breathe between things. I don't want my couple to feel like we're rushing between this, this, this. You know a lot of breath, and so I just feel like if you talk to your couple, or, sorry, if the couple talks to their photographer and they want these certain elements to have, I think the timeline conversation should be had around the same time.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a great idea. I think it's a great idea and it's not like you have to firm up like every.

Speaker 1:

you know every, every clock me work that we, you know, say this is where we're going to start with, this is where I think we're going to end up. But at the end, when we have the whole timeline done, if Kelly comes, kelly, the photographer comes back and says, hey, looking at this, and now that we know that the ceremony's here, cocktail's here and reception is there and the wedding party is actually this number, now I think it would be beneficial if we could add on a half an hour or an hour or whatever, to make sure that the day isn't rushed and we have the opportunities to do all the things. Right, okay, all right, kelly, thank you so much for being on the show. This was such a good, like fun conversation Like this was a good like.

Speaker 1:

The last one I did was so, oh my gosh, it was, it was with Leah and it was about like, when tragedies happen, do you cancel or not, and so I'm so glad to come back and do a happy episode. That was a heavy one. It was by far the heaviest we've done and I avoided it like the plague, but it needed to be done.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure it was really valuable though.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and it will probably get the lowest downloads out of all of them, but for the people that need that piece of mind and knowing you know about, like, what I should do, they'll listen to that. Nobody else will listen to it, but this one people love to know about photography, so I'm very excited for them to hear it and I'm so glad you were on the podcast and I hope you love the experience and you'll come back again.

Speaker 2:

Yes, please, as long as I'll come back any time, you'll have me.

Speaker 1:

After you come back from Italy that you're gonna go do this one again. I just don't. I hope so. I hope so. Okay, girl, have a good afternoon. Thanks again, I really appreciate you. Thanks.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad to be able to share my wedding experiences and expertise with you, and that my co-hosts are so giving it theirs. We truly do want you to have the best time at your wedding, and our hope is that this podcast is helping you to make your engagement time while planning your wedding that much easier. May I ask a favor of you? If this is the case, would you just take a moment to leave a review of this podcast on your listening platform? It helps people just like you to find the podcast and to also find out their answer so they can make decisions. I would also absolutely love for you to give this versus that podcast a shout out on your social media. You can find us at this versus that wedding podcast on Instagram, and if you would like me to help you with a specific question a wedding decision please by all means ask. Send me a DM. I would love to hear from you and maybe, just maybe even have you as a wedding cast on a future episode. How fun. Here's to another great wedding.